How Do We Run Against McCain?

Yes, I know the conventional Dem wisdom is that a guy like McCain simply couldn't win the Republican nomination because he's not sufficiently Fundie-friendly and has tweaked the party on some issues, but I hate to think we're laying all of our eggs in that optimistic basket. To do so is to assume that an otherwise weakening party will simply turn it's nose up at a guy who looks like a winner, and I'm not sure that's a wise assumption to make.

Simply put, he is a very popular guy (http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/10/27/162524/15), even among independents and many Dems.  The media loves him and he's earned an enviable reputation as a no-BS straight shooter, whether earned or not. A reputation like that is always beneficial, but I suspect it may represent an overwhelming positive in the wake of the current and impending scandals to hit the scene (there's a reason why the pious Jimmy Carter emerged in 1976 - Watergate).

He would represent a significant challenge to any potential Democratic nominee.  Indeed, I find it hard to believe that a conventional pol, like HRC, Kerry, or Edwards, would have much of a chance against him.

My question is:  What would be our strategy against A McCain candidacy?  Are there particular messages that would hit paydirt?  Is there a particular candidate or type of candidate that would fare well against him?

I believe the party needs to start thinking about this now before it's too late.

Poll
Who will win the Republican Nomination?
John McCain
Rudy Giuliani
Haley Barbour
Mitt Romney
George Pataki
Bill Frist
Sam Brownback
Other

Votes: 99
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


I should have... (none / 0)

...included George Allen in the poll, who I think has a better chance than guys like Frist, Romney, Pataki, etc.  But, then again, the poll isn't the main point of the diary.
by danielj on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:21:23 PM EST

Re: I should have... (none / 0)

People you should rule out are those with a stated position on abortion. With Alito confirmed and Stevens pushing 90, abortion will be a hot topic.

The country is 60% pro-choice. The only reason Republicans have been winning election while being the pro-life party is because they've been able to convince ENOUGH pro-choice voters that they wouldn't overturn Roe v. Wade while convincing ALL pro-life voters that they'd do the opposite. If people think Roe is in play and we're running against avowed pro-life candidate, he or she would get killed in the general. Also, someone on the books as being pro-choice would get killed in the GOP primary.

Allen or Barbour will the nominee. Anyone else would get destroyed in the general. If one of the other jokers gets nominated, it open the door for a truly liberal candiate.

by crazymoloch on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 01:13:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Concur (3.00 / 1)

I am absolutely with you about the danger of McCain. I diaried about this at DK a few months ago.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/2/141950/9291

by MrExcitement on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:30:40 PM EST

Re: Concur (none / 0)

Great minds think alike!
by danielj on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

au contrair (none / 0)

McCain scares, but it may not be as bad as you think.  First, after seeing the way the wingnuts reacted to Myers, I'd say he's got about a snowball's chance in hell of being elected.  But second, you have to see him as all personality.  What new conservative ideas will he be serving up?  Tax cuts?  He might beat us on charisma, but I seriously believe we can beat him on the issues.
by Jonathan Schwartz on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:29:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Issues are irrelevant in presidential elections (none / 0)

We've won on the issues in pretty much every election for a long time.  Republicans win on personality and windsurfing.  McCain, if nominated, will carry 40 states.  I don't really see a way to avoid it.
"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 03:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

right. (none / 0)

because people always vote on the issues right?

-C.

by neutron on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 03:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Concur (none / 0)

Me too.  Frankly I am rooting for Tancredo or Brownback to win the GOP nom as I think most of our guys can kick their asses.  But to me McCain and Guiliani are real possibilities.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 10:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Scott Free (none / 0)

The most important step is that we stop complaining about lame duck Bush and crowing about his horrible poll numbers and start hammering real threats like John McCain by hanging all of his actions in support of the failed Republican Party.

We need to be like white on rice on any Republican that will attract swing voters, calling them when they support the right's agenda and praising them when they support legislation that is unpopular with the wingnuts. (Photos with McCain and Ted Kennedy smiling over passing something or another  for example.)

Democrats in Congress can be a real help on this by forcing Republican moderates to take stances that will split their base. We in turn help them by getting over our obsession of Bush and documenting their actions in Congress. Just because we lose a vote doesn't mean that we don't use it as a weapon.

McCain is a Senator. They live by compromise. That's why it's so hard for them to run for President where everything is so partisan. We need to make him choke on his attempts to play the middle. We need to make his party's base despise him for being so sane and rational. Force him to either move to the right play to the middle. DO NOT let him have it both ways.

A moderate Republican may be able to win the general, but we have to make damned sure that they never win the primary.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog
by ignatzmouse on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:47:22 PM EST

Why? (none / 0)

I'm not sure why a moderate Republican isn't a good thing for the country in the long term.
by Paul Goodman on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:49:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why? (3.00 / 1)

I guess if you like more of the same, sure.

McCain sold America out in 2004. He's a cancer. A two face grey hat that needs to be crushed.

You don't get give backs on selling your soul.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog
by ignatzmouse on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why? (3.00 / 1)

just tie him to Bush at every chance.  McCain whored himself out to Bush during the '04 race, and that ought to provide plenty of good footage of the two arm in arm.  If we can tie him to one of the least popular presidents ever we'll retired him in '08.  

Carney for Congress -Take Back the House!

by danielfero on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why? (none / 0)

Well since most of us are Partisan Democrats, I am sure we feel a progressive Dem or moderate Dem is better for the country.

Although I will concede if I have to pick a republican, it would be a moderate over the trash in office now.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To "defeat" McCain (none / 0)

control Congress. It's that simple.

  1. We will have divided governemnt, always agood thing.

  2. McCain will balance the budget.

  3. McCain is a uniter, and America needs a uniter.

by Paul Goodman on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:48:02 PM EST

Re: To "defeat" McCain (none / 0)

McCain promised to only appoint justices who would overturn Roe. McCain supports wars of choice in the Middle East. No matter who controls Congress, he'll do those things and the world will be a worse place for it.

Any Democrat is better than McCain.

by MrExcitement on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To "defeat" McCain (none / 0)

So you are Pro-McCain?  Again, I will take a Democrat over McCain.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, i'm pro-divided government (none / 0)

McCain would be a far different President with a democratic congress, than a right-wing congress. I'd prefer a republican congress and a democratic president, because the congress would send up only draconian budgets in order to put the democratic president at odds with his or her "base".
by Paul Goodman on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 02:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here is the only way: BASH THE GOP relentlessly (none / 0)

Begin story. We absolutely have to invent ways to make BushCo's shit stick on GOP! End of story.

It's quite doable, but we haven't managed it yet. We will need to to this effectively even to win 2006. Do you recall that in early 2004, Kerry and a few other Dem. candidates were polling some 10 points better than Bush? So, once the campaign starts, they will overcome anything under a 10% margin, by hook or crook (mostly the latter) and the election dynamics currently work.

The Culture of Corruption (apparently originated from Dean/DNC, but may hav e got ideas from bloggers) is working out quite well.

Let me throw a couple of Bash the GOP memes of an academic nature:



GOP: The Straight "F" Party!


Expel/Demote GOP! It failed the Grade!


GOP: A miserable failure!


It's 9:05 am. Do you know where GOP is? Call Ken Leay at Enron to find out.


It's 9:05 am. Do you know where GOP is? Call Halliburton and ask for Cheney.

Feel free to generate more and more these memes. I will compile them (with due credits) and post in a followup on the "Democratic Slogans" diaries I have done recently (myDD, dKos).

thanks.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:17:51 PM EST

Two Words Wesley Clark (none / 0)

We nominate Wesley Clark for President.
Clark-D a Vietnam Veteran and Former US Military General will take the military and veterans votes away from McCain. Clark can also appeal to independents without alienating the liberal Democratic Base.
by CMBurns on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 06:23:55 PM EST

Re: Two Words Wesley Clark (none / 0)

I agree Clark appeals to the progressive base.  But what about him takes away the indie vote from McCain.  McCain is better known and has a very high likability rating.  You can't asume Clark will take the indie vote from McCain.  Nor to be fair, Gore either.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clark actually polls equally well.. (none / 0)

with independents as well as progressives.

And when it comes down to it, we've spent the last 3 cycles wondering what the ever shrinking "middle" thinks.

Turning out the base is important as well, if you can do both, as you can with Clark is great.

Feingold could do this as well...
along with the bonus of having both campaign finance reformers on oppposite sides of the ticket, which takes money off of the table.

now THAT would be a battle of ideas.

-C.

by neutron on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 03:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One Word: Gore (none / 0)


CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 06:37:26 PM EST

Re: One Word: Gore (none / 0)

Gore has no chance of appealing to Independents that voted for Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996. Supported McCain in the 2000 NH Republican Primary. and have a high opinion of politicians like Jesse Ventura- in 1998, and Arnold Schwarzenneger- in 2003 during the recall.

We need a Democrat that can take the Perot Independent Voters away from McCain-which are McCain's political base. thereby turning McCain into George Bush Sr. during the 1992 Election and Bob Dole during the 1996 Election.

A Clinton Democrat-ie
Hillary Clinton
Al Gore
John Kerry
Wesley Clark
are likely to get 49% of the popular vote in the 2008 Presidential Election. But only Clark(D) can appeal to majority of the 10% of the voters who voted for Perot(R)in 1996.

by CMBurns on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:35:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Word: Gore (none / 0)

"Gore has no chance of appealing to Independents that voted for Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996."

  1. Perot voters dwindled from 19% in 1992 to 5% in 1996.The latter is not that significant.

  2. Most of the 1992 Perot voters were probably disgruntled with the recession. Then, Gore can claim to have helped the economy emerge out of recession and into a period of unprecedented growth and prosperity. And it is not clear how they fell in 2000 and 2004, and so you can not reach your conclusion with the known data or well-justified opinion spectrum.

"Supported McCain in the 2000 NH Republican Primary. and have a high opinion of politicians like Jesse Ventura- in 1998, and Arnold Schwarzenneger- in 2003 during the recall."

They're three quite different cases. The most relevant here is McCain. You have to realize that over the last 5 years, McCain has probably voted 90-95% along party line, including co-sponsoring the Iraq War. (LINK).

The only two good things that I know that McCain accomplished are:

  • his campaign finance reform work (which was a good start, but still much needs to be done)
  • and his recent anti-torture work.

That's by far ot sufficient to offset:

  1. rest of his "Straight F GOP" Record
  2. his recent year Wrong-Wing appeasement (or ass-licking in layman's terms)
  3. and definitely his Iraq war co-sponsoship.

When McCain's real voting record is exposed in detail, I expect many of his independent supporters to drop him like a hot potato.

"We need a Democrat that can take the Perot Independent Voters away from McCain-which are McCain's political base. thereby turning McCain into George Bush Sr. during the 1992 Election and Bob Dole during the 1996 Election."

Perot voters have been discussed.

As I said, McCain'2000 supporters will likely turn on him, once they know his full voting record (which never came about in 2000, since the Wrong-Wing trash talked him out getting the nomination, remember? I think that's why his following is still day-dreaming about him).


A Clinton Democrat-ie
Hillary Clinton
Al Gore
John Kerry
Wesley Clark
are likely to get 49% of the popular vote in the 2008 Presidential Election.

"But only Clark(D) can appeal to majority of the 10% of the voters who voted for Perot(R)in 1996."

Clark has no legislative voting record whatsoever, and most of Perot's appeal was on economic grounds. So how can you reach that conclusion? Therefore your first and the last sentences remain unsupported, IMO.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 09:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Word: Gore (3.00 / 1)

I concur about the unsupported statements.  And you bring up some interesting possibilities with McCain... But you left out one other McCain accomplishment.  He has worked tirelessly to get Steroid testing in sports...  Because you know with a war going on, the middle class getting screwed every day and a culture of corruption stinking up Washington... roids free baseball is the most important thing.  ;-)
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Word: Gore (none / 0)

thanks for informing me about his steroids work.

I also forgot to add the important point to his negatives list: he apparently backs so-called ``intelligent design``: LINK

By turning into an appeaser of the Sacrilegeous Wrong-Wing (well, most of them seem to have supported the unwarranted bloodshed in Iraq, among other irreligious things), McCain turned into one of the greatest disappointments of the recent political times.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 12:05:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Correction (none / 0)

Perot rec'd 8.4% of the vote in 1996. LINK, and not 5% as I stated.

That doesn't significantly affect my argument.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 12:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Word: Gore (none / 0)

So what happens if Ventura runs.  I know he is considering it, although god knows if he actually will.  According to what you said, wouldn't he attract those Perot voters over Clark or any other Dem?
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:14:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Word: Gore (none / 0)

Well, that depends on his record of accomplishments in the Governor's mansion.

A one-term governorship is pretty weak grounds for Presidential aspiration, unless the record during that term is stunningly extra-ordinary.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 12:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Iowa and the south (none / 0)

In 2000 McCain skipped the Iowa caucusses.  I think that alone may cook his goose in Iowa in 2008.  Even IF he wins again in New Hampshire, he'd need to carry some of the early southern states.  I think he's too anti-establishment and at least not indebted enough to the fundies to do that.

No nomination, no worry.

by David Kowalski on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 06:40:21 PM EST

Hanoi Hilton Veterans for Truth (3.00 / 1)

Find some left-leaning businessmen with deep pockets with some shadowy Clinton connections. Find some left-leaning veterans who may or may not have been POWs at some point during Vietnam. Get them to produce TV commercials stating that John McCain may have actually turned himself in to the Vietnamese during the war in order to have "POW" on his resume so that he'd have a more compelling story for his planned political career upon returning home from the war.

Yeah, before 2004, I wouldn't have thought it would have worked either.

by Crazy Vaclav on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 06:46:26 PM EST

Re: Hanoi Hilton Veterans for Truth (none / 0)

[Third offense, but I can't help it -- My moral compass is totally jammed. But I do provide "added content" with this one!]  [Part of this is from posts at MyDD, all of it (sans the "added content") was also posted in The American Street at:
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet/archives/2005/11/01/squeeze-the-gop-moderates/
I rarely commit this crime, but this is an exceptial instance.]

Attytood:

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002449.html

By then, young Sam Alito -- who was graduating Princeton on his way to Yale Law School -- was already in the Army Reserves, which, as this article notes, "became a haven for those avoiding service in Vietnam." The future judge served in the reserves until 1980 and left with the rank of captain.

(And there are now rumors of a Skull and Bones connection.)

(Does this guy have kids. If so, what part of Iraq are they fighting in?)

-------------------------

[This from a response by bluebuddaaz to a similar (but different comment) I made at MyDD]:

alitos kids military service records...

....one kid... is in college... and according to a news article... a right wing supporter... my guess is his service includes membership in YAF, naturally he has other priorities at the moment.. which preclude serving in the stench of war

the other kid.. is in high school... but surely.. after bushs call to arms... she will see the necessity of performin her patriotic duty to the country... but i wouldnt bet on it

-------------------------

Viewed from within a frame of isolated instance, these things might look like accidents of history. But they are in fact representations of a pervasive pandemic.

-------------------------

"Added Content":

It seems there is this vast herd of sensitive souls out there, who shrink at the thought of asking about why a Supreme Court nominee's kids are not fighting beside the poor-buckers in Iraq. Well, I sure as hell ain't one of them!

But I really would not seriously consider "swift-boating" someone like John McCain. I even believe it may be possible that, in terms of the big picture, John McCain might be less awful than Hillary Clinton.

Anyway, It's obvious to me that at the end of the day, partisanism has got to be a cruel trap. We could get to the point where a majority of Democrats endorse forth-graders shooting kittens at school. Life has taught me that there must ever be a sort of dynamic tension between pragmatism and principle.

by blues on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hanoi Hilton Veterans for Truth (none / 0)

There is a point where we as Dems sell our souls and that is it.  Nothing like that... I have too much respect for Veterans...  Unless McCain tried to do the same thing, then all bets are off.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good question. (none / 0)

If the election season began in full tomorrow, McCain's greatest threat would be the right wing of his own party.

But it isn't tomorrow and he'll have time to mend fences.

McCain's health may also become an issue (no, I'm not suggesting GOP style smear tactics).

Do you realize he'll turn 73 in what would be the first year of his administration? That's older than Reagan was. He's also had rather severe skin cancer.

New on EWM: Kevin Bacon to play Libby in upcoming "Six Degrees of Scooter"

It's `Dumb and Dumber' meets `All the President's Men.'

by The Muse on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:26:20 PM EST

Re: Good question. (none / 0)

I was almost sure it was prostate cancer he had.

Well, though I disagree with him more often than not, I have to admire his way of making the most of his opportunities. (Excepting the detour through POW land, he did have a fairly enviable stock of opportunities.) Then again, if the computer voting pogrom means we are to be condemned to eternal Republicanism, he might be the best option.

by blues on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 09:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good question. (none / 0)

I must say, he is looking a lot older lately.  In a few years it will definately show.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with Clark as the best tonic... (none / 0)

The Perot faction isn't really well characterized by the percentage of the vote in 1992 or 1996.  By 1996 Perot had lost the faction himself, because of his flaky exit and reentry in the 1992 race. The Perot faction is best characterized by a mindset.

They are negatively disposed to professional politicians.  They are socially moderate with a libertarian streak, patriotic, and strongly geared toward a balanced budget.  It is a group that will often hold their nose and vote out of a sense of civic duty for a less than desirable candidate--but will become strongly motivated by a candidate that satisfies enough of their personal expectations, which include patriotism, personal integrity, and charisma.  In short, they like the hero myth.  

Wes Clark embodies these virtues very well.  His military background, lack of political experience, and apparent motivation for civic duty are strong assets in mobilizing this population.  The beauty of Clark is that he can take progressive ideals--such as increased taxes for the wealthy, gay rights, and universal health--and by his embrace make them appear more reasonable and saleable because of his background and persona.  

It's the opposite of Hillary's problem.  Hillary can tack to the right all she wants, but she will still look like an opportunistic leftie to this crowd.  It is simply impossible to make Clark look like a raving, irresponsible liberal--I mean, for Chrissakes, he was a General, and LOOK AT HIM!!  He hugs the flag, and it looks like a natural fit.  He speaks about soldiers like one himself.  If the Democratic Party  nominates him, he would neutralize McCain's advantage in this crowd, and the election would turn on issues and campaign.  If the Repugs nominated anybody else--even Giuliani--they would be dead meat.  

However, I must add that I suspect that McCain wouldn't run as strong in the general election as we fear.  His resistance to BushCo has been spotty, with many lapses (such as his role as an apologist for the CIA leaks--SHAME ON YOU, JOHN!)that will be ripe for exploitation.  Plus, he'll have to do it with a very unmotivated right wing base.  So maybe Gore will be enough to beat him--Hillary, less so.  With Clark--it would be a very civil race, with two respectful and respectable candidates--but I'd bet Clark would win.              

by paul minot on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 10:52:26 PM EST

He will never be nominated (none / 0)

He has voted against the gay marriage amendment.

He has voted against estate tax repeal.

He has voted against drilling in ANWR.

He supports the International Criminal Court.

He believes in global warming and has sponsored a significant bill in the Senate to begin countering it.

He's two years younger than Ted Kennedy.

The Republican Party as now constituted cannot nominate someone with a record like this.

by WaitingForLefty on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:11:03 PM EST

I'd be more worried about (none / 0)

how y'all will run with Senator Clinton? I smell a strong third party showing in the wind for 08.
by Seldom Seen Smith on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:41:19 PM EST

Re: I'd be more worried about (none / 0)

LOL...Smith...

I concur with you that the problem isn't being McCain inasmuch that he would make a HRC ticket a very hard sell. You can run any number of Repub chumps and Hillary or Warner or someone fairly centrist would have a fighting chance. But McCain would seal the deal against someone who was pro-war in Iraq. Feingold could work, but it would tough because his populist appeal would be absorbed by McCain.

However, McCain ain't going to run. Hagel will though...and if he gets shut out of the Republican nomination or if he wins it....you are right that as a candidate in the national election he would equal Dre Day for HRC and the aw-shucks pro-war Democrats.

by risenmessiah on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 11:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's pointless (none / 0)

The Democratic party is finished. They couldn't win against Eddie Munster at this point. The are rudderless and leaderless. The Republican party is a straw dog... they should have beaten them down months ago. Instead they capitulated day after day. Capitulated on Iraq, the patriot act, CAFTA, Roberts, Rice... the list goes on and on and on. Really, who gives a fuck anymore? I don't see any way out short of revolution.
by samdinista on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 12:13:40 AM EST

Re: It's pointless (none / 0)

It is people with attitudes like yours that will bring the death off the Democratic party. Instead of working harder to fix problems or run for election to do what needs to be done you just sit there and criticize.

I am in no way defending the Democrat's poor record but it's all the more reason they need our help and support. There is only so much democrats can do in Congress. Our representatives are powerless and we only have 44 senators, who can do very little. We need everybody, yes even people like you, to help take control of congress so that there isn't a second Iraq, patriot act, destructive free trade deal, or any more unqualified nominations.

by nibit25 on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 08:49:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's harder (none / 0)

winning a revolution or winning an election? The real revolution we need is in the hearts and minds of the people: they call the shots, they are to blame, not the hired help.
by Paul Goodman on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 02:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

looks like McCain (none / 0)

will be ensnared in the DeLay fiasco

look for it on a blog near you!

DAGGER
by goplies on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 01:32:46 AM EST

McCain's Voting Record (none / 0)

While McCain has a veneer of disagreements with Bush after the rancorous 2000 primary most voters can be shown they are basicly cut from the same cloth.  McCain will have to either then alienate his base by claiming big differences with Bush or look to other bases of support.
The voting record will show a ton of support for Bush - he will have to embrace Bush publicly - tout what he did for Bush while McCain is in the primary races - to gain any chance at most GOP votes.  That can be the opening salvo in tying McCain to Bush.  Then in the ad wars in the general election - cite the many times McCain backed Bush in Votes on the senate floor.  An index of voting with Bush - like the NRA's report card on legislators - an index  of voting with them - would be real helpful here and in a lot of races.
Like all Senators the record will contain unpopular votes - for tax cuts for the wealthy and against social programs for instance. Not to mention inconsistencies.  Senators are sitting ducks.
by sporadicallyDilligentRuss on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 09:47:24 AM EST

I Agree, But (none / 0)

Again, I'd like to re-emphasize what I said above. We shouldn't go overboard with bashing him the way Reps do.  We shouldn't go for the cheap shot.  

This is important for a lot of reasons. Top two: (1) It's the right thing to do. (2) We believe in governing. In getting things done that work to help people. Doing this is a whole lot easier if we run a critical, but not a mean and nasty campaign.

The reality is that there's a huge reality/perception gap with McCain and the best way to expose it is to be quite straightforward, and very, very repetitive--all the while tying it into a a very simple frame.  The one I suggested is "You're not the man we thought you would be."

It'll work. He isn't.

by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 03:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain Not A Threat (none / 0)

I dont think McCain is much of a threat to the Dems in 2008 even if he would, by some miracle, get the Repug nomination.

McCain would certainly insure a right wing third party candidate.  The right wing nuts have been so coddled, are so use to getting their way, for so long, that they will go "ape-shit" if McCain gets the nod.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out by others, McCain is really not very different then Bush on two issue in which the President is very unpopular: Iraq and economic policy.

The way to beat McCain is with a southern progressive like Edwards.  I say this because the third party candidate I mentioned above will siphon the most votes off McCain in the South, thus making that entire region "in play."

Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 10:31:43 AM EST

Edwards Co-sponsored the Iraq War (none / 0)

along with McCain and others, and he has little record to boot.

IMO, his campaign will be derailed quite easily.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 11:03:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Co-sponsored the Iraq War (none / 0)

Here is the link to Edwards/Bayh's co-sponsorship of Lieberman's Iraq War Resolution. LINK.

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 11:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The McCain Illusion (3.00 / 1)

McCain can be defeated the same way that Girlie Man is being defeated out here in California--in fact, last night I saw my first commercial with McCain trying to save Girlie Man's butt.

The key: You're not the man we thought you would be.

There is plenty of ammo for this, because it's true.  McCain's persona and his record are miles apart.  All you have to do is articulate the frame properly, and repeat it relentlessly.  Message discipline.  Slow but steady, it works.

A key to making this work is that McCain is not the complete fraud that Girlie Man is, and we should be straight about that.  He was a POW. He's been tortured. He's against tortute. That's a good thing.  But he helped to elect a pro-torture President. Not so good.  And not the sort of integrity we'd expect. Less integrity. More "integrity."  Not the man you'd think he would be.

After winning the New Hampshire primary in 2000, he was visciously attacked by Bush's campaign in South Carolina.  Bush campaigned with an extremist vet who spewed false charges about McCain's record.  Given Bush's own shady record, that was a particularly vile attack.  But four years later, when Bush used the same sort of strategy--employing extremist vets to spew false charges about another decorated Vietnam War vet--John Kerry--McCain interceded to tell Kerry not to fire back against the very same man who had also slandered him.

These are the kinds of stories we have to tell, over and over and over again.  Yes, he's a good man. Up to a point. And beyond that point, he's not the man you expected him to be.  Maybe in 2000, we could have lived with that. Maybe in 2000, that would have been enough.  But we are beyond that point.  We need a leader you can count on all the way. And McCain is not that man.  He's not the man you expected him to be.

by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 11:05:40 AM EST

I agree. Make him carry the GOP/Bush baggage. (none / 0)

Any of the democrats in the "mainstream" primaries can beat McCain.  Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Feingold, Richardson, Warner, any of them.  If, and this is an important if, they run the right campaign.  

How would a successful campaign against McCain unfold? First, don't live in fear of the guy.  He's got a 5-12 point lead on our main players.  That's much less than Bush had in either 98-99, or in in 2002-2003.  5-12 points for a guy not many people have found a reason not to like yet.  As the poster said, it's an illusitory McCain that has that lead.

Load the guy down in imagery, spin, and factoids, with Bush.  "The hug", "cake with Katrina" and specific votes involving Bush proposals, combined with a droning "the republicans have failed" should be sufficient.

The GOP knows how to do one thing, which is to attack candidates and smear them.  Don't despair if you think your guy's tarred beyond repair.  All our successful candidates get that treatment, not just the ones who lose.  So how does a "tarred" candidate win an election?  

Tar back.  The word "Keating" can be very powerful.  Also, no campaign, none, are free of irregularities.  McCain's certainly had his fair share, if not more.  Push hard, and keep talking about them with the look of disappointment, even if the press seems disinterested.  That's the Rove playbook, run against your opponent's strength.

Talk about how we need a change.  Ignore McCain's differences with Bush.  Run against Bush. If given a choice between two democrats, the democrat will win.  (Sound familiar?)  It worked* for Bush in 2000, and policy is much more transferrable from politician to politician than sexual indiscretion.  

This guy can be beaten by a politician looking to win.  

by servetus on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 12:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Katrina Cake! (none / 0)

How could I forget that!

When I saw that photo, I must admit, that's one thing that went through my mind, first thing: So much for "President McCain!"  

Of all the dasdardly things Bush has ever done to him, the worst thing of all turns out to be giving him a birthday cake!

There is some poetic justice in the world, after all.  At least if we can keep Bob Shrum from running, I menaing ruining the '08 campaign.

by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 03:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We need to run someone charismatic (none / 0)

against people like McCain. Perhaps Obama?
The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 11:11:52 AM EST

McCain and also Clark (none / 0)

I agree McCain would be a formidable general election opponent but I just don't think it will happen. The liabilities he has in a primary are absolutely daunting. But... something not too many people have picked up on is his age/aging. Take a look at McCain now versus a few short years ago. Everyone gets older, but he looks soooo worn down.  Add to that that he will be one of the oldest people to seek the White House and you might wonder if people will want to vote for someone like that. Maybe they will, I don't know, I am just saying 3 years from now it might be a factor.

As for Wes Clark denying him the military vote...I wouldn't be so sure.  He might, and I hope he does if this scenario comes to pass but its not something you can just assume. McCain may never have been a general, but he draws more war-hero sympathy than Clark. Also, it is no secret that much of the military community was not crazy about Clark as a general. Will this matter? I have no idea, but its somethign to think about. Clark would still be one of my top choices for the nomination but I think its foolish to assume a military career washes away all sorts of potential liabilities.

by dre2k5 on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 11:17:12 AM EST

Re: McCain and also Clark (none / 0)

I agree that Clark would not draw a majority of the military vote--but he would draw a  MUCH more sizeable bunch of veterans and active military than ANYBODY else the Democrats could put forward!  

Anybody gonna argue with that?

by paul minot on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 04:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hold him to his record. (none / 0)

How Do We Run Against McCain?

Hold him to his record of enabling dubya for the past five years.

543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 01:43:59 PM EST

I wait a day to think about what I was going to (none / 0)

say to this diary- it's 2005- can we at least try to get through 2006 before going on to 2008?
by bruh21 on Sat Nov 05, 2005 at 04:00:17 PM EST

Just to point this out i don't know if somone else (none / 0)

Has but you should add Geroge Allen to your poll.
Running the Davis, Nelson Klein team in Florida.
by Liberal on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 05:21:14 PM EST


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